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+To: Lars Wirzenius <liw@liw.fi>
+References: <2d0a8c01-9f58-1ee7-7e20-53fe65d96718@palant.de>
+ <20170703050540.p5co243yxedvsaca@liw.fi>
+From: Wladimir Palant <gtiobnam@palant.de>
+Message-ID: <23949c28-f4b0-04bb-d4b8-c6569c94820b@palant.de>
+Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2017 09:48:45 +0200
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+Cc: obnam-dev@obnam.org
+Subject: Re: [rfc] Passphrase-based encryption
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+
+On 03.07.2017 07:05, Lars Wirzenius wrote:
+> If you want this, you should write a plugin that adds symmetric
+> encryption in addition to the PGP based on that Obnam currently
+> provides. You should probably do it by only encrypting the symmetric
+> encryption key that PGP encrypts. This would allow PGP and symmetric
+> to be used on the same repo by different clients.
+
+Not really worth it as long as I'm the only one using that plugin, I'd
+rather stay with my simple approach then.
+
+> I am afraid, however, that I am unlikely to accept the plugin into
+> Obnam proper, since I don't think it makes things better. It's true
+> that it will probably be easier to set up, but at the cost of more
+> difficult key management.
+
+No problem, if it isn't a good match for the overall concept then so be it.
+
+> Backing up small files such as PGP keys is so easy I don't agree with
+> that part of your argument. It's a matter of a few kilobytes. You
+> could put the key into a QR code and print it on paper.
+
+My thought was rather encrypting it with a passphrase and storing next
+to the actual backup. Doing this correctly turned out non-trivial, with
+both GPG's own passphrase encryption and OpenSSL's enc tool using
+suboptimal key derivation to say the least.
+
+> Also, environment variables can be read by other processes, just like
+> command line arguments can be. See /proc/*/environ. The environ files
+> are only readable by the owner, but it's still not a way to pass
+> secrets, in my opinion. Defense in depth, and all that.
+
+There aren't too many ways to pass secrets and AFAIK none of them will
+protect against other processes running with the same privileges. For
+example, you could require the passphrase to be stored in a file
+readable only by the owner - but this protection will be equivalent to
+the way /proc/*/environ is protected (or GPG keys for that matter).
+
+regards
+Wladimir
+
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