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diff --git a/tickets/5ecf296ebd2f4bb181c9a37577fc034b/Maildir/new/1469354405.M457396P29342Q1.hrun b/tickets/5ecf296ebd2f4bb181c9a37577fc034b/Maildir/new/1469354405.M457396P29342Q1.hrun
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@@ -0,0 +1,177 @@
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+Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2016 12:57:18 +0300
+From: Lars Wirzenius <liw@liw.fi>
+To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E9mi?= Rampin <remirampin@gmail.com>
+Message-ID: <20160724095718.GH5765@exolobe3>
+References: <56E8255A.9020906@gmail.com>
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+Cc: obnam-dev@obnam.org
+Subject: Re: [PATCH 1/2] Switch to setuptools
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+
+On Mon, Jul 11, 2016 at 02:10:36PM -0400, R=E9mi Rampin wrote:
+> 2016-07-11 13:45 EDT, Lars Wirzenius <liw@liw.fi>:
+>=20
+> > On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 11:31:41AM -0400, Remi Rampin wrote:
+> > > -from distutils.core import setup, Extension
+> > > +from setuptools import setup, Extension
+> >
+> > Can you explain why using setuptools instead of distutils? Let's
+> > assume I am quite ignorant about PyPI and pip and the various Python
+> > attemmpts at build tools.
+> >
+>=20
+> setuptools has become a standard for Python packages and if people have p=
+ip
+> installed, you can assume they have setuptools. In particular, setuptools
+> is recommended by the Packaging User Guide [1].
+
+Oh good, yet another build depenendy, then.
+
+> > +os.chdir(os.path.abspath(os.path.dirname(__file__)))
+> >
+> > Why is this line needed?
+>=20
+> If running the setup.py script from another working directory (pip install
+> doesn't do that, but when using -e or calling it manually it can
+> happen),
+
+I don't feel that's a thing I care to support. If we are to have that
+line, then at least it needs to have a comment to explain it.
+
+If that use case for setup.py is something that should be supported,
+it should be supported by setuptools directly, not by inserting code
+into every setup.py file ever written.
+
+> Yes, all of the dependencies would have to be put there. I didn't rename
+> larch yet because I didn't know what to rename it to (larch is taken [2]
+> but not python-larch, ...)
+
+I don't particularly care about the name on PyPI. It's a flat
+namespace, and this is one of the problems that results from that.
+
+However, since there's no point in putting in any of this PyPI support
+into Obnam before its dependencies, I am afraid I'm going to drop this
+now.
+
+I do not like PyPI, and I do not like anything about how the Python
+community distributes code. I don't want to have to deal with it, and
+this thread has already exceeded my tolerance level for PyPI.
+
+--=20
+Schr=F6dinger's backup hypothesis: the condition of any backup is
+undefined until a restore is attempted. -- andrewsh
+
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+_______________________________________________
+obnam-dev mailing list
+obnam-dev@obnam.org
+http://listmaster.pepperfish.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/obnam-dev-obnam.org
+
+--===============4790262178142167993==--
+
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+Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2016 12:57:59 +0300
+From: Lars Wirzenius <liw@liw.fi>
+To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E9mi?= Rampin <remirampin@gmail.com>
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+Subject: Re: [PATCH 2/2] Remove cliapp, use subprocess directly
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+
+On Mon, Jul 11, 2016 at 02:12:06PM -0400, R=E9mi Rampin wrote:
+> 2016-07-11 13:41 EDT, Lars Wirzenius <liw@liw.fi>:
+>=20
+> > Why drop cliapp from the setup.py file? What problem does this solve?
+> > cliapp needs to be installed anyway, since obnamlib imports it.
+> >
+>=20
+> The problem is that setuptools will not install the dependencies before it
+> reaches the setup() function call that tells it what they are. If you
+> import/use cliapp before that, the script will never reach it.
+
+Obnam's setup.py does "import obnamlib" and obnamlib imports cliapp.
+If you don't have cliapp imported, you can't run setup.py.
+
+
+--=20
+Schr=F6dinger's backup hypothesis: the condition of any backup is
+undefined until a restore is attempted. -- andrewsh
+
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