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diff --git a/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/.this-dir-not-empty/.empty/empty-file b/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/.this-dir-not-empty/.empty/empty-file
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diff --git a/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455998994.M473647P17339Q6.exolobe1 b/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455998994.M473647P17339Q6.exolobe1
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@@ -0,0 +1,98 @@
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+Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2015 09:22:57 +0300
+From: Lars Wirzenius <liw@liw.fi>
+To: obnam-dev@obnam.org
+Message-ID: <20150803062257.GX2398@exolobe1.liw.fi>
+References: <5972291.20vWKz5Qal@kongruent> <2978302.nGKuNUQN6W@conductor>
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+Subject: Re: forget --ignore-missing-chunks [was
+	--fsck-repair-missing-chunks]
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+
+On Sun, Aug 02, 2015 at 10:59:36PM +0200, Lukáš Poláček wrote:
+> On Sunday, August 02, 2015 15:45:08 Lars Wirzenius wrote:
+> > On Sun, Aug 02, 2015 at 10:59:15AM +0200, Lukáš Poláček wrote:
+> > > Okay. How come forget_plugin.py worked before? Was it because
+> > > commit_client
+> > > also commits chunk indexes?
+> > 
+> > I'm not sure what you mean. commit_client doesn't commit chunk
+> > indexes. The forget plugin committs chunk indexes separately.
+> 
+> Where exactly?
+
+Hm, you're right. It seems to have gotten lost at some point in the
+past few months. Crap. If we had an fsck that could fix that, it would
+be really nice.
+
+-- 
+sic transit disci mundi, ergo obnam
+
+_______________________________________________
+obnam-dev mailing list
+obnam-dev@obnam.org
+http://listmaster.pepperfish.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/obnam-dev-obnam.org
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new file mode 100644
index 0000000..33c2886
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+++ b/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455998995.M62474P17339Q21.exolobe1
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+Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2015 09:22:57 +0300
+From: Lars Wirzenius <liw@liw.fi>
+To: obnam-dev@obnam.org
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+Subject: Re: forget --ignore-missing-chunks [was
+	--fsck-repair-missing-chunks]
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+
+On Sun, Aug 02, 2015 at 10:59:36PM +0200, Lukáš Poláček wrote:
+> On Sunday, August 02, 2015 15:45:08 Lars Wirzenius wrote:
+> > On Sun, Aug 02, 2015 at 10:59:15AM +0200, Lukáš Poláček wrote:
+> > > Okay. How come forget_plugin.py worked before? Was it because
+> > > commit_client
+> > > also commits chunk indexes?
+> > 
+> > I'm not sure what you mean. commit_client doesn't commit chunk
+> > indexes. The forget plugin committs chunk indexes separately.
+> 
+> Where exactly?
+
+Hm, you're right. It seems to have gotten lost at some point in the
+past few months. Crap. If we had an fsck that could fix that, it would
+be really nice.
+
+-- 
+sic transit disci mundi, ergo obnam
+
+_______________________________________________
+obnam-dev mailing list
+obnam-dev@obnam.org
+http://listmaster.pepperfish.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/obnam-dev-obnam.org
diff --git a/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455998996.M485692P17339Q52.exolobe1 b/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455998996.M485692P17339Q52.exolobe1
new file mode 100644
index 0000000..6b5ac7b
--- /dev/null
+++ b/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455998996.M485692P17339Q52.exolobe1
@@ -0,0 +1,184 @@
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+From: =?utf-8?B?THVrw6HFoSBQb2zDocSNZWs=?= <lukas@ksp.sk>
+To: Lars Wirzenius <liw@liw.fi>
+Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 21:30:59 +0200
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+Cc: Gary <gary@mups.co.uk>, obnam-dev@obnam.org
+Subject: Re: forget --ignore-missing-chunks [was
+	--fsck-repair-missing-chunks]
+X-BeenThere: obnam-dev@obnam.org
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+
+onsdagen den 22 juli 2015 22:15:13 skrev  Lars Wirzenius:
+> On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 05:57:59PM +0200, Luk=C3=A1=C5=A1 Pol=C3=A1=C4=
+=8Dek wrote:
+> > The new solution is to run 'obam forget' with
+> > --ignore-missing-chunks. Here is a patch
+> > https://github.com/lukipuki/obnam/pull/2
+>=20
+> Here's my current thinking about the "missing chunk" situation.
+>=20
+> Zeroth, I'd like to thank everyone for the good discussion in this
+> thread. I've been busy with things (including working on the upcoming=
+
+> new Obnam repository format), and don't always have time to respond
+> promptly. It makes me glad, and it's actively helping me, when
+> everyone else helps each other out.
+
+Thank you for such great software!
+
+> First, I'd really like to find the root cause or causes for why this
+> happens. It happens too often to be random filesystem corruption, so
+> I'm assuming it's a bug in Obnam. Unfortunately, I don't currently
+> have a clue how to reproduce this reliably. Help wanted!
+
+While debugging this, I think I spotted a possible place in the code th=
+at might be causing this (at least in the case of interrupted forget). =
+I'll try to recall where it was and investigate.
+
+> Second, even if we fix all such Obnam bugs, there will always be othe=
+r
+> problems, including breaking hard drives. It would be good for Obnam
+> to be robust against problems in the backup repository. Thus I think
+> "obnam restore", "obnam mount", "obnam forget", and other Obnam
+> commands need to be fixed to handle missing chunks, by reporting it a=
+s
+> an error, but preventing Obnam from continuing the operation.
+>=20
+> I don't think we should have an option to enable this robustness. It
+> should always happen. This is a change from what I've said before:
+> I've changed my mind. This actually happens. I'm not as stubborn as a=
+
+> mule. I'm only as stubborn as an ... a donkey.
+
+Great! I agree.
+
+> The first step in making Obnam more robust is to add one or more test=
+s
+> for missing chunks. Ideally these would be in the yarn test suite.
+> Something like this:
+>=20
+> * Create L/foo with some random data.
+> * Backup L.
+> * Create L/bar with some other random data.
+> * Create L/foobar which is a copy of L/foo.
+> * Backup L.
+> * Remove file chunk data files that were created in the second backup=
+,
+>   but keep the ones that were there for the first backup.
+> * Restore first generation. This should work perfectly.
+> * Restore second generation. This should restore L/foo and L/foobar
+>   correctly, and report failure for L/bar.
+> * Run fsck on the repository, getting it to fix problems.
+> * Restore second generation. This should now work perfectly, given
+>   that fsck fixed problems.
+>=20
+> With the test suite (possibly without fsck), writing fixes gets more
+> sensible, since we can be more confident the fixes actually work. The=
+
+> test should be augmented by testing "obnam mount" as well.
+>=20
+> As far as how make Obnam more robust against missing chunks, I'm goin=
+g
+> to claim that adding 0-byte replacement chunks to replace missing
+> chunks is a bad idea. It means that when people do a restore, they
+> silently get the wrong data. A better way to handle a missing chunk i=
+s
+> for restore to notice it, report an error, and then continue instead
+> of crashing. Luk=C3=A1=C5=A1 has been working toward that goal, I bel=
+ieve.
+
+As far as I can tell, restore (and mount) does this already. It reports=
+ "read error" or something similar when a file with a missing chunks is=
+ being restored, but the rest of the generation is just fine. I've test=
+ed it on the copy of my broken repo.
+
+However, forget is not that robust and that's what I worked on.
+
+> What fsck should do about is that it should remove the missing chunk
+> from the "chunk indexes", so that no new backups find the missing
+> chunk using its checksum. Further backups would then make a new chunk=
+
+> for the missing data. I would not have fsck do further fixes, since
+> that would hide the fact that a chunk has gone missing and that any
+> restored data is incomplete.
+>=20
+> I'll volunteer to make the changes in the yarn test suite, though it
+> may take a while before I get it done. If someone else can do it firs=
+t
+> (it should be fairly simple), this will progress faster.
+>=20
+> Luk=C3=A1=C5=A1, after the new tests are written, would you be happy =
+to adjust,
+> if necessary, your patches?
+
+Sure!
+
+Cheers,
+Lukas
+
+_______________________________________________
+obnam-dev mailing list
+obnam-dev@obnam.org
+http://listmaster.pepperfish.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/obnam-dev-obnam.org
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new file mode 100644
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+++ b/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455998996.M5904P17339Q42.exolobe1
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+Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2015 14:06:12 +0300
+From: Lars Wirzenius <liw@liw.fi>
+To: =?utf-8?B?THVrw6HFoSBQb2zDocSNZWs=?= <lukas@ksp.sk>,
+	obnam-dev@obnam.org
+Message-ID: <20150801110612.GH2398@exolobe1.liw.fi>
+References: <5972291.20vWKz5Qal@kongruent> <5075317.ExUSC5bmSc@conductor>
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+Subject: Re: forget --ignore-missing-chunks [was
+	--fsck-repair-missing-chunks]
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+
+On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 10:33:20PM +0300, Lars Wirzenius wrote:
+> I can have a try at this in the weekend.
+
+I've pushed my changes to remove chunk files only after references
+have been changed to master now.
+
+-- 
+sic transit disci mundi, ergo obnam
+
+_______________________________________________
+obnam-dev mailing list
+obnam-dev@obnam.org
+http://listmaster.pepperfish.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/obnam-dev-obnam.org
diff --git a/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455998996.M66607P17339Q44.exolobe1 b/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455998996.M66607P17339Q44.exolobe1
new file mode 100644
index 0000000..e701349
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+++ b/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455998996.M66607P17339Q44.exolobe1
@@ -0,0 +1,105 @@
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+From: =?utf-8?B?THVrw6HFoSBQb2zDocSNZWs=?= <lukas@ksp.sk>
+To: Lars Wirzenius <liw@liw.fi>
+Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2015 10:59:15 +0200
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+Subject: Re: forget --ignore-missing-chunks [was
+	--fsck-repair-missing-chunks]
+X-BeenThere: obnam-dev@obnam.org
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+Precedence: list
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+
+On Thursday, July 30, 2015 22:33:20 Lars Wirzenius wrote:
+> On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 08:01:37PM +0200, Luk=C3=A1=C5=A1 Pol=C3=A1=C4=
+=8Dek wrote:
+> > > 1. Lock everything.
+> > > 2. Find out which chunks can be removed.
+> > > 3. Remove all references to the chunks (per-client data, chunk
+> > >=20
+> > >    indexes).
+> > >=20
+> > > 4. Commit all changes (and unlock).
+> > > 5. Delete the chunks.
+> >=20
+> > That's what my patch does (except unlock, but that is a small detai=
+l).
+>=20
+> I don't think it does, actually. The chunk indexes get updated while
+> chunks get removed, in flush_chunks in repo_fmt_6.py. All of the chun=
+k
+> indexes updates need to be committed before any of the chunk files ge=
+t
+> removed. Otherwise, if forget gets interrupted, the indexes may
+> reference a chunk that's actually removed already.
+
+Okay. How come forget_plugin.py worked before? Was it because commit_cl=
+ient=20
+also commits chunk indexes?
+
+Lukas
+
+_______________________________________________
+obnam-dev mailing list
+obnam-dev@obnam.org
+http://listmaster.pepperfish.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/obnam-dev-obnam.org
diff --git a/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455998996.M725662P17339Q56.exolobe1 b/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455998996.M725662P17339Q56.exolobe1
new file mode 100644
index 0000000..65a0b25
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+++ b/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455998996.M725662P17339Q56.exolobe1
@@ -0,0 +1,130 @@
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+Cc: Lars Wirzenius <liw@liw.fi>
+Subject: Re: forget --ignore-missing-chunks [was
+	--fsck-repair-missing-chunks]
+X-BeenThere: obnam-dev@obnam.org
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+
+On Sunday, July 26, 2015 20:48:57 Lars Wirzenius wrote:
+> On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 03:28:17PM +0200, Luk=C3=A1=C5=A1 Pol=C3=A1=C4=
+=8Dek wrote:
+> > Done! See https://github.com/lukipuki/obnam/compare/interrupted-for=
+get
+> >=20
+> > This is what obnam is capable of now. Let's interrupt it with Ctrl-=
+C:
+> > $ obnam forget
+> > forgetting generations: 11/31 done^C
+> > $ obnam force-lock # need to unlock after interrupt
+> > $ obnam forget
+> > forgetting generations: 21/21 done
+> >=20
+> > Not only it doesn't crash now, but it resumes deleting after the po=
+int
+> > where it was interrupted!
+>=20
+> It struck me today that the right way to do forget is like this:
+>=20
+> 1. Lock everything.
+> 2. Find out which chunks can be removed.
+> 3. Remove all references to the chunks (per-client data, chunk
+>    indexes).
+> 4. Commit all changes (and unlock).
+> 5. Delete the chunks.
+>=20
+> If Obnam crashes during step 5, it means that some chunks will be
+> left, but fsck should deal with that. (That assumes an fsck that's
+> fast enough that it can be realistically run. The current one is too
+> slow for most people.)
+>=20
+> I'll ponder on this for a bit. Until I do, I won't make a new release=
+,
+> though.
+>=20
+> I didn't yet look through your patch in detail. One note, though, is
+> that I'd prefer to not have boolean "do this instead of that"
+> switches, such as the unlock argument you add to commit_client. It's =
+a
+> better API to have those separate.
+
+I've now overwritten the last patch in my branch. I've added
+"commit_client_without_unlock" to the API, but I don't like that name v=
+ery=20
+much.
+
+I think the commit_client function should do just "commit" and then we =
+can=20
+have "commit_and_unclock_client".
+
+Lukas
+
+
+_______________________________________________
+obnam-dev mailing list
+obnam-dev@obnam.org
+http://listmaster.pepperfish.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/obnam-dev-obnam.org
diff --git a/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455998999.M112042P17339Q90.exolobe1 b/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455998999.M112042P17339Q90.exolobe1
new file mode 100644
index 0000000..a824eb5
--- /dev/null
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@@ -0,0 +1,100 @@
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+ -0.0 SPF_HELO_PASS          SPF: HELO matches SPF record
+ -0.0 SPF_PASS               SPF: sender matches SPF record
+ -0.1 RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain
+ -1.9 BAYES_00               BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1%
+ [score: 0.0000]
+X-ACL-Warn: message may be spam
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+Cc: Lars Wirzenius <liw@liw.fi>
+Subject: Re: forget --ignore-missing-chunks [was
+	--fsck-repair-missing-chunks]
+X-BeenThere: obnam-dev@obnam.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
+Precedence: list
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+
+On Sunday, August 02, 2015 15:45:08 Lars Wirzenius wrote:
+> On Sun, Aug 02, 2015 at 10:59:15AM +0200, Luk=C3=A1=C5=A1 Pol=C3=A1=C4=
+=8Dek wrote:
+> > Okay. How come forget_plugin.py worked before? Was it because
+> > commit_client
+> > also commits chunk indexes?
+>=20
+> I'm not sure what you mean. commit_client doesn't commit chunk
+> indexes. The forget plugin committs chunk indexes separately.
+
+Where exactly?
+
+I'm looking at repository checked out at 38e95900, before I started wri=
+ting my=20
+changes. repo.commit_chunk_indexes() is only called in fsck_plugin.py a=
+nd=20
+backup_plugin.py and I can't find it in forget_plugin.py.
+
+I'm asking, because I'd like to understand the code better as well as t=
+he repo=20
+format.
+
+Lukas
+
+_______________________________________________
+obnam-dev mailing list
+obnam-dev@obnam.org
+http://listmaster.pepperfish.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/obnam-dev-obnam.org
diff --git a/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455998999.M184667P17339Q92.exolobe1 b/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455998999.M184667P17339Q92.exolobe1
new file mode 100644
index 0000000..d20992c
--- /dev/null
+++ b/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455998999.M184667P17339Q92.exolobe1
@@ -0,0 +1,93 @@
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+Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2015 16:15:11 +0300
+From: Lars Wirzenius <liw@liw.fi>
+To: =?utf-8?B?THVrw6HFoSBQb2zDocSNZWs=?= <lukas@ksp.sk>,
+	obnam-dev@obnam.org
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+References: <5972291.20vWKz5Qal@kongruent> <5075317.ExUSC5bmSc@conductor>
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+Subject: Re: forget --ignore-missing-chunks [was
+	--fsck-repair-missing-chunks]
+X-BeenThere: obnam-dev@obnam.org
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+
+On Sat, Aug 01, 2015 at 02:06:12PM +0300, Lars Wirzenius wrote:
+> On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 10:33:20PM +0300, Lars Wirzenius wrote:
+> > I can have a try at this in the weekend.
+> 
+> I've pushed my changes to remove chunk files only after references
+> have been changed to master now.
+
+I've now also pushed changes to re-do the work to commit changes after
+every generation during "obnam forget".
+
+-- 
+sic transit disci mundi, ergo obnam
+
+_______________________________________________
+obnam-dev mailing list
+obnam-dev@obnam.org
+http://listmaster.pepperfish.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/obnam-dev-obnam.org
diff --git a/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455999000.M255721P17339Q103.exolobe1 b/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455999000.M255721P17339Q103.exolobe1
new file mode 100644
index 0000000..4071226
--- /dev/null
+++ b/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455999000.M255721P17339Q103.exolobe1
@@ -0,0 +1,92 @@
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+From: Lars Wirzenius <liw@liw.fi>
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+ tool) -0.5 PPF_USER_AGENT         User-Agent: exists
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+Cc: Gary <gary@mups.co.uk>, obnam-dev@obnam.org
+Subject: Re: forget --ignore-missing-chunks [was
+	--fsck-repair-missing-chunks]
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+
+On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 11:01:29PM +0200, Lukáš Poláček wrote:
+> It turned out I wasn't too tired and the fix was fairly simple:
+> https://github.com/lukipuki/obnam/compare/interrupted-forget
+
+I've merged this now, with modifications. I dropped the
+--ignore-missing-chunks option, as I don't think it makes sense to
+have it. I'd rather Obnam was robust by default and always. The test
+scenario I wrote earlier now passes, so that's merged as well.
+
+Thanks, Lukas!
+
+-- 
+sic transit disci mundi, ergo obnam
+
+_______________________________________________
+obnam-dev mailing list
+obnam-dev@obnam.org
+http://listmaster.pepperfish.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/obnam-dev-obnam.org
diff --git a/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455999002.M680469P17339Q126.exolobe1 b/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455999002.M680469P17339Q126.exolobe1
new file mode 100644
index 0000000..eadbc88
--- /dev/null
+++ b/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455999002.M680469P17339Q126.exolobe1
@@ -0,0 +1,125 @@
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+Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 20:48:57 +0300
+From: Lars Wirzenius <liw@liw.fi>
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+Cc: obnam-dev@obnam.org
+Subject: Re: forget --ignore-missing-chunks [was
+	--fsck-repair-missing-chunks]
+X-BeenThere: obnam-dev@obnam.org
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+
+On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 03:28:17PM +0200, Lukáš Poláček wrote:
+> Done! See https://github.com/lukipuki/obnam/compare/interrupted-forget
+> 
+> This is what obnam is capable of now. Let's interrupt it with Ctrl-C:
+> $ obnam forget
+> forgetting generations: 11/31 done^C
+> $ obnam force-lock # need to unlock after interrupt
+> $ obnam forget
+> forgetting generations: 21/21 done
+> 
+> Not only it doesn't crash now, but it resumes deleting after the point where 
+> it was interrupted!
+
+It struck me today that the right way to do forget is like this:
+
+1. Lock everything.
+2. Find out which chunks can be removed.
+3. Remove all references to the chunks (per-client data, chunk
+   indexes).
+4. Commit all changes (and unlock).
+5. Delete the chunks.
+
+If Obnam crashes during step 5, it means that some chunks will be
+left, but fsck should deal with that. (That assumes an fsck that's
+fast enough that it can be realistically run. The current one is too
+slow for most people.)
+
+I'll ponder on this for a bit. Until I do, I won't make a new release,
+though.
+
+I didn't yet look through your patch in detail. One note, though, is
+that I'd prefer to not have boolean "do this instead of that"
+switches, such as the unlock argument you add to commit_client. It's a
+better API to have those separate.
+
+> Btw, it's a nice code base. Every time I needed to add some
+> functionality, I didn't have to touch too many files and too many
+> different places in the code. My last patch is therefore very small,
+> but the change adds a lot of functionality.
+
+Thanks, I do try to keep the code clean, even if it's not as clean as
+I want it to be.
+
+-- 
+sic transit disci mundi, ergo obnam
+
+_______________________________________________
+obnam-dev mailing list
+obnam-dev@obnam.org
+http://listmaster.pepperfish.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/obnam-dev-obnam.org
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new file mode 100644
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+Subject: --fsck-repair-missing-chunks
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+
+Hi,
+I sent a similar mail to obnam-support, but I think I should also send it here.
+
+I had a problem with missing chunks when running forget:
+$ obnam forget
+forgetting generations: 0/60 doneERROR: R43272X: Repository doesn't contain chunk 9412000916050223474. It is expected at chunks/1689/2989/295/829e24f75ad32172
+
+I ended up writing a patch that fixes it, it adds option --fsck-repair-missing-chunks to fsck:
+https://github.com/lukipuki/obnam/pull/1/files
+
+It creates an empty chunk file whenever the file is missing. This is useful in situations like mine,
+but probably less so in others.
+
+By the way, I had some trouble with assertRaises, so I did a work-around. Can someone have a look on what I did wrong? My original code is commented out:
+https://github.com/lukipuki/obnam/pull/1/files#diff-90654461bc7bd4effbe04c3f5257bfeeR2160
+
+I also have ideas for a couple more options for fsck, so that one can repair missing chunks in the order of minutes rather than hours.
+
+Cheers,
+Lukas
+
+_______________________________________________
+obnam-dev mailing list
+obnam-dev@obnam.org
+http://listmaster.pepperfish.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/obnam-dev-obnam.org
diff --git a/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455999005.M749655P17339Q158.exolobe1 b/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455999005.M749655P17339Q158.exolobe1
new file mode 100644
index 0000000..8ecb288
--- /dev/null
+++ b/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455999005.M749655P17339Q158.exolobe1
@@ -0,0 +1,94 @@
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+Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 20:39:31 +0300
+From: Lars Wirzenius <liw@liw.fi>
+To: obnam-dev@obnam.org
+Message-ID: <20150723173931.GN2366@exolobe1.liw.fi>
+References: <5972291.20vWKz5Qal@kongruent> <1460492.xlg7OpTbOb@conductor>
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+Subject: Re: forget --ignore-missing-chunks [was
+	--fsck-repair-missing-chunks]
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+
+On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 09:30:59PM +0200, Lukáš Poláček wrote:
+> As far as I can tell, restore (and mount) does this already. It
+> reports "read error" or something similar when a file with a missing
+> chunks is being restored, but the rest of the generation is just
+> fine. I've tested it on the copy of my broken repo.
+> 
+> However, forget is not that robust and that's what I worked on.
+
+Er, right. Somewhere while writing that email my brain turned "forget"
+to "restore". But obviously a test scenario for this should test at
+least all the major operations.
+
+
+-- 
+sic transit disci mundi, ergo obnam
+
+_______________________________________________
+obnam-dev mailing list
+obnam-dev@obnam.org
+http://listmaster.pepperfish.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/obnam-dev-obnam.org
diff --git a/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455999006.M650008P17339Q167.exolobe1 b/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455999006.M650008P17339Q167.exolobe1
new file mode 100644
index 0000000..66f70a9
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@@ -0,0 +1,93 @@
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+Subject: Re: forget --ignore-missing-chunks [was
+	--fsck-repair-missing-chunks]
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+
+On Saturday, August 01, 2015 16:15:11 Lars Wirzenius wrote:
+> On Sat, Aug 01, 2015 at 02:06:12PM +0300, Lars Wirzenius wrote:
+> > On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 10:33:20PM +0300, Lars Wirzenius wrote:
+> > > I can have a try at this in the weekend.
+> > 
+> > I've pushed my changes to remove chunk files only after references
+> > have been changed to master now.
+> 
+> I've now also pushed changes to re-do the work to commit changes after
+> every generation during "obnam forget".
+
+Cool! I've tested this and it correctly resumes an interrupted forget, without 
+doing the same generation twice.
+
+Lukas
+
+_______________________________________________
+obnam-dev mailing list
+obnam-dev@obnam.org
+http://listmaster.pepperfish.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/obnam-dev-obnam.org
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new file mode 100644
index 0000000..74a5566
--- /dev/null
+++ b/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455999006.M726831P17339Q169.exolobe1
@@ -0,0 +1,114 @@
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+Subject: Re: forget --ignore-missing-chunks [was
+	--fsck-repair-missing-chunks]
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+
+On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 01:50:18PM +0200, Lukáš Poláček wrote:
+> On Saturday, July 25, 2015 14:33:57 Lars Wirzenius wrote:
+> > On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 11:01:29PM +0200, Lukáš Poláček wrote:
+> > > It turned out I wasn't too tired and the fix was fairly simple:
+> > > https://github.com/lukipuki/obnam/compare/interrupted-forget
+> > 
+> > I've merged this now, with modifications. I dropped the
+> > --ignore-missing-chunks option, as I don't think it makes sense to
+> > have it. I'd rather Obnam was robust by default and always. The test
+> > scenario I wrote earlier now passes, so that's merged as well.
+> > 
+> > Thanks, Lukas!
+> 
+> Cool!
+> 
+> Though I think you meant the other patch, this one fixes interrupted forget 
+> which you haven't merged yet.
+
+Er, right. Commit 0da82b27bd07b781e441793b08c661516a33489b is what I
+merged.
+
+> I have some further improvements in mind for the interrupted-forget patch:
+> We should commit client and remove chunks after deleting each generation. 
+> Currently we commit and remove chunks after all generations are processed, 
+> which can take hours.
+
+That's probably OK, too. Haven't looked at interrupted-forget yet.
+
+> I'll try to add one more patch to my interrupted-forget branch today or 
+> tomorrow.
+
+Send an email to obnam-dev when you have. :)
+
+-- 
+sic transit disci mundi, ergo obnam
+
+_______________________________________________
+obnam-dev mailing list
+obnam-dev@obnam.org
+http://listmaster.pepperfish.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/obnam-dev-obnam.org
diff --git a/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455999007.M930567P17339Q182.exolobe1 b/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455999007.M930567P17339Q182.exolobe1
new file mode 100644
index 0000000..06d7eba
--- /dev/null
+++ b/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455999007.M930567P17339Q182.exolobe1
@@ -0,0 +1,147 @@
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+From: =?utf-8?B?THVrw6HFoSBQb2zDocSNZWs=?= <lukas@ksp.sk>
+To: obnam-dev@obnam.org
+Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 22:34:53 +0200
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+Cc: Gary <gary@mups.co.uk>, Lars Wirzenius <liw@liw.fi>
+Subject: Re: forget --ignore-missing-chunks [was
+	--fsck-repair-missing-chunks]
+X-BeenThere: obnam-dev@obnam.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
+Precedence: list
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+
+On Wednesday, July 22, 2015 21:30:59 Luk=C3=A1=C5=A1 Pol=C3=A1=C4=8Dek =
+wrote:
+> onsdagen den 22 juli 2015 22:15:13 skrev  Lars Wirzenius:
+> > On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 05:57:59PM +0200, Luk=C3=A1=C5=A1 Pol=C3=A1=
+=C4=8Dek wrote:
+> > > The new solution is to run 'obam forget' with
+> > > --ignore-missing-chunks. Here is a patch
+> > > https://github.com/lukipuki/obnam/pull/2
+> >=20
+> > Here's my current thinking about the "missing chunk" situation.
+> >=20
+> > Zeroth, I'd like to thank everyone for the good discussion in this
+> > thread. I've been busy with things (including working on the upcomi=
+ng
+> > new Obnam repository format), and don't always have time to respond=
+
+> > promptly. It makes me glad, and it's actively helping me, when
+> > everyone else helps each other out.
+>=20
+> Thank you for such great software!
+>=20
+> > First, I'd really like to find the root cause or causes for why thi=
+s
+> > happens. It happens too often to be random filesystem corruption, s=
+o
+> > I'm assuming it's a bug in Obnam. Unfortunately, I don't currently
+> > have a clue how to reproduce this reliably. Help wanted!
+>=20
+> While debugging this, I think I spotted a possible place in the code =
+that
+> might be causing this (at least in the case of interrupted forget). I=
+'ll
+> try to recall where it was and investigate.
+
+Reproduced!
+
+Steps:
+1. Add "raise Exception" on line 565 in repo_fmt_6.py, like so:=20
+self._remove_chunks_from_removed_generations(client_name, [gen_number])=
+
+raise Exception
+open_client_info.client.start_changes(create_tree=3DFalse)
+open_client_info.client.remove_generation(gen_number)
+
+(We are forcing obnam to remove chunks and crash before the generation =
+is=20
+removed from the client)
+
+2. Run "obnam forget" so that it forgets at least one generation. Chunk=
+s that=20
+are not needed get deleted but the generation is still stored in the cl=
+ient,=20
+because obnam was interrupted by an exception.
+
+3. Run "obnam force-lock" (because the exception caused it to stay lock=
+ed) and=20
+then "obnam forget" again:
+forgetting generations: 0/10 doneERROR: R43272X: Repository doesn't con=
+tain=20
+chunk 2564090581110374861. It is expected at=20
+chunks/2066/1585/3030/23957acc630241cd
+
+
+The fix should be fairly simple, although it might need some refactorin=
+g. Too=20
+tired to write a patch now :)
+
+Cheers,
+Lukas
+
+_______________________________________________
+obnam-dev mailing list
+obnam-dev@obnam.org
+http://listmaster.pepperfish.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/obnam-dev-obnam.org
diff --git a/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455999008.M264508P17339Q192.exolobe1 b/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455999008.M264508P17339Q192.exolobe1
new file mode 100644
index 0000000..fd280b7
--- /dev/null
+++ b/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455999008.M264508P17339Q192.exolobe1
@@ -0,0 +1,121 @@
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+Subject: Re: forget --ignore-missing-chunks [was
+	--fsck-repair-missing-chunks]
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+
+On Saturday, July 25, 2015 14:33:57 Lars Wirzenius wrote:
+> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 11:01:29PM +0200, Luk=C3=A1=C5=A1 Pol=C3=A1=C4=
+=8Dek wrote:
+> > It turned out I wasn't too tired and the fix was fairly simple:
+> > https://github.com/lukipuki/obnam/compare/interrupted-forget
+>=20
+> I've merged this now, with modifications. I dropped the
+> --ignore-missing-chunks option, as I don't think it makes sense to
+> have it. I'd rather Obnam was robust by default and always. The test
+> scenario I wrote earlier now passes, so that's merged as well.
+>=20
+> Thanks, Lukas!
+
+Cool!
+
+Though I think you meant the other patch, this one fixes interrupted fo=
+rget=20
+which you haven't merged yet.
+
+I have some further improvements in mind for the interrupted-forget pat=
+ch:
+We should commit client and remove chunks after deleting each generatio=
+n.=20
+Currently we commit and remove chunks after all generations are process=
+ed,=20
+which can take hours.
+
+For example, my $HOME repository was broken with missing chunks for abo=
+ut 4=20
+months and I only fixed it last weekend thanks to my patch. Then I had =
+about=20
+100 generations to remove and "obanm forget" took about 5 hours. Now wi=
+th the=20
+current patch all the chunks and 100 generations are removed at the end=
+ of the=20
+5 hour period, which is not very good. If you interrupt a very long for=
+get=20
+after deleting 90% of your generations, you get back to step 0.
+
+I'll try to add one more patch to my interrupted-forget branch today or=
+=20
+tomorrow.
+
+Lukas
+
+_______________________________________________
+obnam-dev mailing list
+obnam-dev@obnam.org
+http://listmaster.pepperfish.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/obnam-dev-obnam.org
diff --git a/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455999008.M757806P17339Q194.exolobe1 b/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455999008.M757806P17339Q194.exolobe1
new file mode 100644
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+Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 22:33:20 +0300
+From: Lars Wirzenius <liw@liw.fi>
+To: =?utf-8?B?THVrw6HFoSBQb2zDocSNZWs=?= <lukas@ksp.sk>
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+Subject: Re: forget --ignore-missing-chunks [was
+	--fsck-repair-missing-chunks]
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+
+On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 08:01:37PM +0200, Lukáš Poláček wrote:
+> > 1. Lock everything.
+> > 2. Find out which chunks can be removed.
+> > 3. Remove all references to the chunks (per-client data, chunk
+> >    indexes).
+> > 4. Commit all changes (and unlock).
+> > 5. Delete the chunks.
+> 
+> That's what my patch does (except unlock, but that is a small detail).
+
+I don't think it does, actually. The chunk indexes get updated while
+chunks get removed, in flush_chunks in repo_fmt_6.py. All of the chunk
+indexes updates need to be committed before any of the chunk files get
+removed. Otherwise, if forget gets interrupted, the indexes may
+reference a chunk that's actually removed already.
+
+I can have a try at this in the weekend.
+
+-- 
+sic transit disci mundi, ergo obnam
+
+_______________________________________________
+obnam-dev mailing list
+obnam-dev@obnam.org
+http://listmaster.pepperfish.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/obnam-dev-obnam.org
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@@ -0,0 +1,94 @@
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+Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 21:03:28 +0300
+From: Lars Wirzenius <liw@liw.fi>
+To: =?utf-8?B?THVrw6HFoSBQb2zDocSNZWs=?= <lukas@ksp.sk>
+Message-ID: <20150726180328.GB2366@exolobe1.liw.fi>
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+Subject: Re: forget --ignore-missing-chunks [was
+	--fsck-repair-missing-chunks]
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+
+On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 08:01:37PM +0200, Lukáš Poláček wrote:
+> That's what my patch does (except unlock, but that is a small detail).
+
+Oh, cool, I didn't understand that from skimming it. I'll review the
+patch in detail soon.
+
+> I've modified fsck to run faster for me to remove extra chunks, by
+> skipping computing checksums. The performance difference is huge. I
+> can make a patch with this extra option at some later point.
+
+That'd be nice, thanks.
+
+-- 
+sic transit disci mundi, ergo obnam
+
+_______________________________________________
+obnam-dev mailing list
+obnam-dev@obnam.org
+http://listmaster.pepperfish.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/obnam-dev-obnam.org
diff --git a/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455999010.M639296P17339Q210.exolobe1 b/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455999010.M639296P17339Q210.exolobe1
new file mode 100644
index 0000000..c662fe3
--- /dev/null
+++ b/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455999010.M639296P17339Q210.exolobe1
@@ -0,0 +1,139 @@
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+Subject: Re: forget --ignore-missing-chunks [was
+	--fsck-repair-missing-chunks]
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+
+s=C3=B6ndagen den 26 juli 2015 20:48:57 skrev  Lars Wirzenius:
+> On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 03:28:17PM +0200, Luk=C3=A1=C5=A1 Pol=C3=A1=C4=
+=8Dek wrote:
+> > Done! See https://github.com/lukipuki/obnam/compare/interrupted-for=
+get
+> >=20
+> > This is what obnam is capable of now. Let's interrupt it with Ctrl-=
+C:
+> > $ obnam forget
+> > forgetting generations: 11/31 done^C
+> > $ obnam force-lock # need to unlock after interrupt
+> > $ obnam forget
+> > forgetting generations: 21/21 done
+> >=20
+> > Not only it doesn't crash now, but it resumes deleting after the po=
+int where=20
+> > it was interrupted!
+>=20
+> It struck me today that the right way to do forget is like this:
+>=20
+> 1. Lock everything.
+> 2. Find out which chunks can be removed.
+> 3. Remove all references to the chunks (per-client data, chunk
+>    indexes).
+> 4. Commit all changes (and unlock).
+> 5. Delete the chunks.
+
+That's what my patch does (except unlock, but that is a small detail).
+
+> If Obnam crashes during step 5, it means that some chunks will be
+> left, but fsck should deal with that. (That assumes an fsck that's
+> fast enough that it can be realistically run. The current one is too
+> slow for most people.)
+
+I've modified fsck to run faster for me to remove extra chunks, by skip=
+ping computing checksums. The performance difference is huge. I can mak=
+e a patch with this extra option at some later point.
+
+> I'll ponder on this for a bit. Until I do, I won't make a new release=
+,
+> though.
+>=20
+> I didn't yet look through your patch in detail. One note, though, is
+> that I'd prefer to not have boolean "do this instead of that"
+> switches, such as the unlock argument you add to commit_client. It's =
+a
+> better API to have those separate.
+
+I agree, I can change it back to the old behavior.
+
+> > Btw, it's a nice code base. Every time I needed to add some
+> > functionality, I didn't have to touch too many files and too many
+> > different places in the code. My last patch is therefore very small=
+,
+> > but the change adds a lot of functionality.
+>=20
+> Thanks, I do try to keep the code clean, even if it's not as clean as=
+
+> I want it to be.
+>=20
+>=20
+
+
+_______________________________________________
+obnam-dev mailing list
+obnam-dev@obnam.org
+http://listmaster.pepperfish.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/obnam-dev-obnam.org
diff --git a/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455999010.M776809P17339Q215.exolobe1 b/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455999010.M776809P17339Q215.exolobe1
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index 0000000..e788b84
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+++ b/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455999010.M776809P17339Q215.exolobe1
@@ -0,0 +1,154 @@
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+Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 22:15:13 +0300
+From: Lars Wirzenius <liw@liw.fi>
+To: =?utf-8?B?THVrw6HFoSBQb2zDocSNZWs=?= <lukas@ksp.sk>
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+Cc: Gary <gary@mups.co.uk>, obnam-dev@obnam.org
+Subject: Re: forget --ignore-missing-chunks [was
+	--fsck-repair-missing-chunks]
+X-BeenThere: obnam-dev@obnam.org
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+
+On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 05:57:59PM +0200, Lukáš Poláček wrote:
+> The new solution is to run 'obam forget' with
+> --ignore-missing-chunks. Here is a patch
+> https://github.com/lukipuki/obnam/pull/2
+
+Here's my current thinking about the "missing chunk" situation.
+
+Zeroth, I'd like to thank everyone for the good discussion in this
+thread. I've been busy with things (including working on the upcoming
+new Obnam repository format), and don't always have time to respond
+promptly. It makes me glad, and it's actively helping me, when
+everyone else helps each other out.
+
+First, I'd really like to find the root cause or causes for why this
+happens. It happens too often to be random filesystem corruption, so
+I'm assuming it's a bug in Obnam. Unfortunately, I don't currently
+have a clue how to reproduce this reliably. Help wanted!
+
+Second, even if we fix all such Obnam bugs, there will always be other
+problems, including breaking hard drives. It would be good for Obnam
+to be robust against problems in the backup repository. Thus I think
+"obnam restore", "obnam mount", "obnam forget", and other Obnam
+commands need to be fixed to handle missing chunks, by reporting it as
+an error, but preventing Obnam from continuing the operation.
+
+I don't think we should have an option to enable this robustness. It
+should always happen. This is a change from what I've said before:
+I've changed my mind. This actually happens. I'm not as stubborn as a
+mule. I'm only as stubborn as an ... a donkey.
+
+The first step in making Obnam more robust is to add one or more tests
+for missing chunks. Ideally these would be in the yarn test suite.
+Something like this:
+
+* Create L/foo with some random data.
+* Backup L.
+* Create L/bar with some other random data.
+* Create L/foobar which is a copy of L/foo.
+* Backup L.
+* Remove file chunk data files that were created in the second backup,
+  but keep the ones that were there for the first backup.
+* Restore first generation. This should work perfectly.
+* Restore second generation. This should restore L/foo and L/foobar
+  correctly, and report failure for L/bar.
+* Run fsck on the repository, getting it to fix problems.
+* Restore second generation. This should now work perfectly, given
+  that fsck fixed problems.
+
+With the test suite (possibly without fsck), writing fixes gets more
+sensible, since we can be more confident the fixes actually work. The
+test should be augmented by testing "obnam mount" as well.
+
+As far as how make Obnam more robust against missing chunks, I'm going
+to claim that adding 0-byte replacement chunks to replace missing
+chunks is a bad idea. It means that when people do a restore, they
+silently get the wrong data. A better way to handle a missing chunk is
+for restore to notice it, report an error, and then continue instead
+of crashing. Lukáš has been working toward that goal, I believe.
+
+What fsck should do about is that it should remove the missing chunk
+from the "chunk indexes", so that no new backups find the missing
+chunk using its checksum. Further backups would then make a new chunk
+for the missing data. I would not have fsck do further fixes, since
+that would hide the fact that a chunk has gone missing and that any
+restored data is incomplete.
+
+I'll volunteer to make the changes in the yarn test suite, though it
+may take a while before I get it done. If someone else can do it first
+(it should be fairly simple), this will progress faster.
+
+Lukáš, after the new tests are written, would you be happy to adjust,
+if necessary, your patches?
+
+-- 
+sic transit disci mundi, ergo obnam
+
+_______________________________________________
+obnam-dev mailing list
+obnam-dev@obnam.org
+http://listmaster.pepperfish.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/obnam-dev-obnam.org
diff --git a/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455999012.M264535P17339Q241.exolobe1 b/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455999012.M264535P17339Q241.exolobe1
new file mode 100644
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@@ -0,0 +1,149 @@
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+ Thu, 23 Jul 2015 21:58:19 +0300 (EEST)
+Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 21:58:18 +0300
+From: Lars Wirzenius <liw@liw.fi>
+To: =?utf-8?B?THVrw6HFoSBQb2zDocSNZWs=?= <lukas@ksp.sk>
+Message-ID: <20150723185818.GO2366@exolobe1.liw.fi>
+References: <5972291.20vWKz5Qal@kongruent> <1527462.Y7ExHB7XNM@kongruent>
+ <44929067.8IX34BIZvD@conductor> <2432528.QdFqWFWzmv@conductor>
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+Cc: Gary <gary@mups.co.uk>, obnam-dev@obnam.org
+Subject: Re: forget --ignore-missing-chunks [was
+	--fsck-repair-missing-chunks]
+X-BeenThere: obnam-dev@obnam.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
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+
+I think you're right about at least one 'cause of missing chunks. I'll
+review the code in more detail later. I spent my hacking time for
+tonight to make the test suite changes in my repository, in the branch
+liw/missing-chunk.
+
+On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 11:01:29PM +0200, Lukáš Poláček wrote:
+> On Wednesday, July 22, 2015 22:34:53 Lukáš Poláček wrote:
+> > On Wednesday, July 22, 2015 21:30:59 Lukáš Poláček wrote:
+> > > onsdagen den 22 juli 2015 22:15:13 skrev  Lars Wirzenius:
+> > > > On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 05:57:59PM +0200, Lukáš Poláček wrote:
+> > > > > The new solution is to run 'obam forget' with
+> > > > > --ignore-missing-chunks. Here is a patch
+> > > > > https://github.com/lukipuki/obnam/pull/2
+> > > > 
+> > > > Here's my current thinking about the "missing chunk" situation.
+> > > > 
+> > > > Zeroth, I'd like to thank everyone for the good discussion in this
+> > > > thread. I've been busy with things (including working on the upcoming
+> > > > new Obnam repository format), and don't always have time to respond
+> > > > promptly. It makes me glad, and it's actively helping me, when
+> > > > everyone else helps each other out.
+> > > 
+> > > Thank you for such great software!
+> > > 
+> > > > First, I'd really like to find the root cause or causes for why this
+> > > > happens. It happens too often to be random filesystem corruption, so
+> > > > I'm assuming it's a bug in Obnam. Unfortunately, I don't currently
+> > > > have a clue how to reproduce this reliably. Help wanted!
+> > > 
+> > > While debugging this, I think I spotted a possible place in the code that
+> > > might be causing this (at least in the case of interrupted forget). I'll
+> > > try to recall where it was and investigate.
+> > 
+> > Reproduced!
+> > 
+> > Steps:
+> > 1. Add "raise Exception" on line 565 in repo_fmt_6.py, like so:
+> > self._remove_chunks_from_removed_generations(client_name, [gen_number])
+> > raise Exception
+> > open_client_info.client.start_changes(create_tree=False)
+> > open_client_info.client.remove_generation(gen_number)
+> > 
+> > (We are forcing obnam to remove chunks and crash before the generation is
+> > removed from the client)
+> > 
+> > 2. Run "obnam forget" so that it forgets at least one generation. Chunks
+> > that are not needed get deleted but the generation is still stored in the
+> > client, because obnam was interrupted by an exception.
+> > 
+> > 3. Run "obnam force-lock" (because the exception caused it to stay locked)
+> > and then "obnam forget" again:
+> > forgetting generations: 0/10 doneERROR: R43272X: Repository doesn't contain
+> > chunk 2564090581110374861. It is expected at
+> > chunks/2066/1585/3030/23957acc630241cd
+> > 
+> > 
+> > The fix should be fairly simple, although it might need some refactoring.
+> > Too tired to write a patch now :)
+> > 
+> > Cheers,
+> > Lukas
+> 
+> It turned out I wasn't too tired and the fix was fairly simple:
+> https://github.com/lukipuki/obnam/compare/interrupted-forget
+> 
+> Lukas
+> 
+
+-- 
+sic transit disci mundi, ergo obnam
+
+_______________________________________________
+obnam-dev mailing list
+obnam-dev@obnam.org
+http://listmaster.pepperfish.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/obnam-dev-obnam.org
diff --git a/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455999012.M332305P17339Q242.exolobe1 b/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455999012.M332305P17339Q242.exolobe1
new file mode 100644
index 0000000..a24a236
--- /dev/null
+++ b/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455999012.M332305P17339Q242.exolobe1
@@ -0,0 +1,131 @@
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+From: =?utf-8?B?THVrw6HFoSBQb2zDocSNZWs=?= <lukas@ksp.sk>
+To: obnam-dev@obnam.org
+Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 17:57:59 +0200
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+Cc: Gary <gary@mups.co.uk>
+Subject: forget --ignore-missing-chunks [was --fsck-repair-missing-chunks]
+X-BeenThere: obnam-dev@obnam.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
+Precedence: list
+List-Id: Obnam development discussions <obnam-dev-obnam.org>
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+
+On Monday, July 20, 2015 09:04:54 Luk=C3=A1=C5=A1 Pol=C3=A1=C4=8Dek wro=
+te:
+> Hi,
+> I sent a similar mail to obnam-support, but I think I should also sen=
+d it
+> here.
+>=20
+> I had a problem with missing chunks when running forget:
+> $ obnam forget
+> forgetting generations: 0/60 doneERROR: R43272X: Repository doesn't c=
+ontain
+> chunk 9412000916050223474. It is expected at
+> chunks/1689/2989/295/829e24f75ad32172
+>=20
+> I ended up writing a patch that fixes it, it adds option
+> --fsck-repair-missing-chunks to fsck:
+> https://github.com/lukipuki/obnam/pull/1/files
+>=20
+> It creates an empty chunk file whenever the file is missing. This is =
+useful
+> in situations like mine, but probably less so in others.
+>=20
+> By the way, I had some trouble with assertRaises, so I did a work-aro=
+und.
+> Can someone have a look on what I did wrong? My original code is comm=
+ented
+> out:
+> https://github.com/lukipuki/obnam/pull/1/files#diff-90654461bc7bd4eff=
+be04c3
+> f5257bfeeR2160
+>=20
+> I also have ideas for a couple more options for fsck, so that one can=
+ repair
+> missing chunks in the order of minutes rather than hours.
+>=20
+> Cheers,
+> Lukas
+
+Hi,
+after discussion with Gary (+cc) I decided to abandon my previous patch=
+:
+* it's an ugly hack
+* I thought the patch would also help for situations when chunks are=20=
+
+corrupted, but "obnam restore" and "obnam mount" handle them as expecte=
+d.
+* there's a simpler and nicer solution, see the PR below
+
+The new solution is to run 'obam forget' with --ignore-missing-chunks. =
+Here is=20
+a patch
+https://github.com/lukipuki/obnam/pull/2
+
+Cheers,
+Lukas
+
+_______________________________________________
+obnam-dev mailing list
+obnam-dev@obnam.org
+http://listmaster.pepperfish.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/obnam-dev-obnam.org
diff --git a/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455999012.M396081P17339Q243.exolobe1 b/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455999012.M396081P17339Q243.exolobe1
new file mode 100644
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--- /dev/null
+++ b/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455999012.M396081P17339Q243.exolobe1
@@ -0,0 +1,156 @@
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+From: =?utf-8?B?THVrw6HFoSBQb2zDocSNZWs=?= <lukas@ksp.sk>
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+Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 23:01:29 +0200
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+Cc: Gary <gary@mups.co.uk>, Lars Wirzenius <liw@liw.fi>
+Subject: Re: forget --ignore-missing-chunks [was
+	--fsck-repair-missing-chunks]
+X-BeenThere: obnam-dev@obnam.org
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+
+On Wednesday, July 22, 2015 22:34:53 Luk=C3=A1=C5=A1 Pol=C3=A1=C4=8Dek =
+wrote:
+> On Wednesday, July 22, 2015 21:30:59 Luk=C3=A1=C5=A1 Pol=C3=A1=C4=8De=
+k wrote:
+> > onsdagen den 22 juli 2015 22:15:13 skrev  Lars Wirzenius:
+> > > On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 05:57:59PM +0200, Luk=C3=A1=C5=A1 Pol=C3=A1=
+=C4=8Dek wrote:
+> > > > The new solution is to run 'obam forget' with
+> > > > --ignore-missing-chunks. Here is a patch
+> > > > https://github.com/lukipuki/obnam/pull/2
+> > >=20
+> > > Here's my current thinking about the "missing chunk" situation.
+> > >=20
+> > > Zeroth, I'd like to thank everyone for the good discussion in thi=
+s
+> > > thread. I've been busy with things (including working on the upco=
+ming
+> > > new Obnam repository format), and don't always have time to respo=
+nd
+> > > promptly. It makes me glad, and it's actively helping me, when
+> > > everyone else helps each other out.
+> >=20
+> > Thank you for such great software!
+> >=20
+> > > First, I'd really like to find the root cause or causes for why t=
+his
+> > > happens. It happens too often to be random filesystem corruption,=
+ so
+> > > I'm assuming it's a bug in Obnam. Unfortunately, I don't currentl=
+y
+> > > have a clue how to reproduce this reliably. Help wanted!
+> >=20
+> > While debugging this, I think I spotted a possible place in the cod=
+e that
+> > might be causing this (at least in the case of interrupted forget).=
+ I'll
+> > try to recall where it was and investigate.
+>=20
+> Reproduced!
+>=20
+> Steps:
+> 1. Add "raise Exception" on line 565 in repo_fmt_6.py, like so:
+> self._remove_chunks_from_removed_generations(client_name, [gen_number=
+])
+> raise Exception
+> open_client_info.client.start_changes(create_tree=3DFalse)
+> open_client_info.client.remove_generation(gen_number)
+>=20
+> (We are forcing obnam to remove chunks and crash before the generatio=
+n is
+> removed from the client)
+>=20
+> 2. Run "obnam forget" so that it forgets at least one generation. Chu=
+nks
+> that are not needed get deleted but the generation is still stored in=
+ the
+> client, because obnam was interrupted by an exception.
+>=20
+> 3. Run "obnam force-lock" (because the exception caused it to stay lo=
+cked)
+> and then "obnam forget" again:
+> forgetting generations: 0/10 doneERROR: R43272X: Repository doesn't c=
+ontain
+> chunk 2564090581110374861. It is expected at
+> chunks/2066/1585/3030/23957acc630241cd
+>=20
+>=20
+> The fix should be fairly simple, although it might need some refactor=
+ing.
+> Too tired to write a patch now :)
+>=20
+> Cheers,
+> Lukas
+
+It turned out I wasn't too tired and the fix was fairly simple:
+https://github.com/lukipuki/obnam/compare/interrupted-forget
+
+Lukas
+
+_______________________________________________
+obnam-dev mailing list
+obnam-dev@obnam.org
+http://listmaster.pepperfish.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/obnam-dev-obnam.org
diff --git a/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455999012.M453825P17339Q244.exolobe1 b/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455999012.M453825P17339Q244.exolobe1
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+Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 21:48:35 +0200
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+Cc: Gary <gary@mups.co.uk>, Lars Wirzenius <liw@liw.fi>
+Subject: Re: forget --ignore-missing-chunks [was
+	--fsck-repair-missing-chunks]
+X-BeenThere: obnam-dev@obnam.org
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+
+On Wednesday, July 22, 2015 21:30:59 Luk=C3=A1=C5=A1 Pol=C3=A1=C4=8Dek =
+wrote:
+> onsdagen den 22 juli 2015 22:15:13 skrev  Lars Wirzenius:
+> > On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 05:57:59PM +0200, Luk=C3=A1=C5=A1 Pol=C3=A1=
+=C4=8Dek wrote:
+> > > The new solution is to run 'obam forget' with
+> > > --ignore-missing-chunks. Here is a patch
+> > > https://github.com/lukipuki/obnam/pull/2
+> >=20
+> > Here's my current thinking about the "missing chunk" situation.
+> >=20
+> > Zeroth, I'd like to thank everyone for the good discussion in this
+> > thread. I've been busy with things (including working on the upcomi=
+ng
+> > new Obnam repository format), and don't always have time to respond=
+
+> > promptly. It makes me glad, and it's actively helping me, when
+> > everyone else helps each other out.
+>=20
+> Thank you for such great software!
+>=20
+> > First, I'd really like to find the root cause or causes for why thi=
+s
+> > happens. It happens too often to be random filesystem corruption, s=
+o
+> > I'm assuming it's a bug in Obnam. Unfortunately, I don't currently
+> > have a clue how to reproduce this reliably. Help wanted!
+>=20
+> While debugging this, I think I spotted a possible place in the code =
+that
+> might be causing this (at least in the case of interrupted forget). I=
+'ll
+> try to recall where it was and investigate.
+> > Second, even if we fix all such Obnam bugs, there will always be ot=
+her
+> > problems, including breaking hard drives. It would be good for Obna=
+m
+> > to be robust against problems in the backup repository. Thus I thin=
+k
+> > "obnam restore", "obnam mount", "obnam forget", and other Obnam
+> > commands need to be fixed to handle missing chunks, by reporting it=
+ as
+> > an error, but preventing Obnam from continuing the operation.
+> >=20
+> > I don't think we should have an option to enable this robustness. I=
+t
+> > should always happen. This is a change from what I've said before:
+> > I've changed my mind. This actually happens. I'm not as stubborn as=
+ a
+> > mule. I'm only as stubborn as an ... a donkey.
+>=20
+> Great! I agree.
+>=20
+> > The first step in making Obnam more robust is to add one or more te=
+sts
+> > for missing chunks. Ideally these would be in the yarn test suite.
+> > Something like this:
+> >=20
+> > * Create L/foo with some random data.
+> > * Backup L.
+> > * Create L/bar with some other random data.
+> > * Create L/foobar which is a copy of L/foo.
+> > * Backup L.
+> > * Remove file chunk data files that were created in the second back=
+up,
+> >=20
+> >   but keep the ones that were there for the first backup.
+> >=20
+> > * Restore first generation. This should work perfectly.
+> > * Restore second generation. This should restore L/foo and L/foobar=
+
+> >=20
+> >   correctly, and report failure for L/bar.
+> >=20
+> > * Run fsck on the repository, getting it to fix problems.
+> > * Restore second generation. This should now work perfectly, given
+> >=20
+> >   that fsck fixed problems.
+> >=20
+> > With the test suite (possibly without fsck), writing fixes gets mor=
+e
+> > sensible, since we can be more confident the fixes actually work. T=
+he
+> > test should be augmented by testing "obnam mount" as well.
+> >=20
+> > As far as how make Obnam more robust against missing chunks, I'm go=
+ing
+> > to claim that adding 0-byte replacement chunks to replace missing
+> > chunks is a bad idea. It means that when people do a restore, they
+> > silently get the wrong data. A better way to handle a missing chunk=
+ is
+> > for restore to notice it, report an error, and then continue instea=
+d
+> > of crashing. Luk=C3=A1=C5=A1 has been working toward that goal, I b=
+elieve.
+>=20
+> As far as I can tell, restore (and mount) does this already. It repor=
+ts
+> "read error" or something similar when a file with a missing chunks i=
+s
+> being restored, but the rest of the generation is just fine. I've tes=
+ted it
+> on the copy of my broken repo.
+>=20
+> However, forget is not that robust and that's what I worked on.
+>=20
+> > What fsck should do about is that it should remove the missing chun=
+k
+> > from the "chunk indexes", so that no new backups find the missing
+> > chunk using its checksum. Further backups would then make a new chu=
+nk
+> > for the missing data. I would not have fsck do further fixes, since=
+
+> > that would hide the fact that a chunk has gone missing and that any=
+
+> > restored data is incomplete.
+> >=20
+> > I'll volunteer to make the changes in the yarn test suite, though i=
+t
+> > may take a while before I get it done. If someone else can do it fi=
+rst
+> > (it should be fairly simple), this will progress faster.
+> >=20
+> > Luk=C3=A1=C5=A1, after the new tests are written, would you be happ=
+y to adjust,
+> > if necessary, your patches?
+>=20
+> Sure!
+>=20
+> Cheers,
+> Lukas
+
+For the record, this is what I get when trying to restore a generation =
+with=20
+two missing chunks:
+
+$ obnam restore --generation=3D2174 /etc
+Failed to restore /etc/ld.so.cache: R43272X: Repository doesn't contain=
+ chunk=20
+9412000916050223486. It is expected at chunks/1689/2989/295/829e24f75ad=
+3217e
+Failed to restore /etc/prelink.conf.d/portage.conf: R43272X: Repository=
+=20
+doesn't contain chunk 9412000916050223474. It is expected at=20
+chunks/1689/2989/295/829e24f75ad32172
+
+Restored 1855 files, downloaded 13.5 MiB in 1s at 11.7 MiB/s average sp=
+eed                  =20
+ERROR: RD6259X: There were errors when restoring
+
+See previous error messages for details.
+----- end of output -----------
+
+When I access those two files, they are empty.
+
+With obnam mount the situation is similar. 'obnam mount' runs without a=
+n error=20
+and then:=20
+$ cat etc/ld.so.cache
+cat: ld.so.cache: Invalid argument
+
+The rest of the generation is mounted correctly and accessible.
+
+Overall, I don't see anything wrong in the behaviour of 'restore' and '=
+mount'.
+
+Lukas
+
+_______________________________________________
+obnam-dev mailing list
+obnam-dev@obnam.org
+http://listmaster.pepperfish.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/obnam-dev-obnam.org
diff --git a/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455999012.M618594P17339Q248.exolobe1 b/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455999012.M618594P17339Q248.exolobe1
new file mode 100644
index 0000000..03dde01
--- /dev/null
+++ b/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455999012.M618594P17339Q248.exolobe1
@@ -0,0 +1,143 @@
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+Cc: Lars Wirzenius <liw@liw.fi>
+Subject: Re: forget --ignore-missing-chunks [was
+	--fsck-repair-missing-chunks]
+X-BeenThere: obnam-dev@obnam.org
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+
+On Saturday, July 25, 2015 15:27:15 Lars Wirzenius wrote:
+> On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 01:50:18PM +0200, Luk=C3=A1=C5=A1 Pol=C3=A1=C4=
+=8Dek wrote:
+> > On Saturday, July 25, 2015 14:33:57 Lars Wirzenius wrote:
+> > > On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 11:01:29PM +0200, Luk=C3=A1=C5=A1 Pol=C3=A1=
+=C4=8Dek wrote:
+> > > > It turned out I wasn't too tired and the fix was fairly simple:=
+
+> > > > https://github.com/lukipuki/obnam/compare/interrupted-forget
+> > >=20
+> > > I've merged this now, with modifications. I dropped the
+> > > --ignore-missing-chunks option, as I don't think it makes sense t=
+o
+> > > have it. I'd rather Obnam was robust by default and always. The t=
+est
+> > > scenario I wrote earlier now passes, so that's merged as well.
+> > >=20
+> > > Thanks, Lukas!
+> >=20
+> > Cool!
+> >=20
+> > Though I think you meant the other patch, this one fixes interrupte=
+d
+> > forget
+> > which you haven't merged yet.
+>=20
+> Er, right. Commit 0da82b27bd07b781e441793b08c661516a33489b is what I
+> merged.
+>=20
+> > I have some further improvements in mind for the interrupted-forget=
+ patch:
+> > We should commit client and remove chunks after deleting each gener=
+ation.
+> > Currently we commit and remove chunks after all generations are pro=
+cessed,
+> > which can take hours.
+>=20
+> That's probably OK, too. Haven't looked at interrupted-forget yet.
+>=20
+> > I'll try to add one more patch to my interrupted-forget branch toda=
+y or
+> > tomorrow.
+>=20
+> Send an email to obnam-dev when you have. :)
+
+Done! See https://github.com/lukipuki/obnam/compare/interrupted-forget
+
+This is what obnam is capable of now. Let's interrupt it with Ctrl-C:
+$ obnam forget
+forgetting generations: 11/31 done^C
+$ obnam force-lock # need to unlock after interrupt
+$ obnam forget
+forgetting generations: 21/21 done
+
+Not only it doesn't crash now, but it resumes deleting after the point =
+where=20
+it was interrupted!
+
+Btw, it's a nice code base. Every time I needed to add some functionali=
+ty, I=20
+didn't have to touch too many files and too many different places in th=
+e code.=20
+My last patch is therefore very small, but the change adds a lot of=20
+functionality.
+
+Lukas
+
+_______________________________________________
+obnam-dev mailing list
+obnam-dev@obnam.org
+http://listmaster.pepperfish.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/obnam-dev-obnam.org
diff --git a/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455999013.M421385P17339Q254.exolobe1 b/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/new/1455999013.M421385P17339Q254.exolobe1
new file mode 100644
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+Sender: obnam-dev-bounces@obnam.org
+Errors-To: obnam-dev-bounces@obnam.org
+
+On Sun, Aug 02, 2015 at 10:59:15AM +0200, Lukáš Poláček wrote:
+> Okay. How come forget_plugin.py worked before? Was it because commit_client 
+> also commits chunk indexes?
+
+I'm not sure what you mean. commit_client doesn't commit chunk
+indexes. The forget plugin committs chunk indexes separately.
+
+-- 
+sic transit disci mundi, ergo obnam
+
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+obnam-dev mailing list
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diff --git a/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/tmp/.this-dir-not-empty/.empty/empty-file b/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/tmp/.this-dir-not-empty/.empty/empty-file
new file mode 100644
index 0000000..e69de29
--- /dev/null
+++ b/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/Maildir/tmp/.this-dir-not-empty/.empty/empty-file
diff --git a/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/ticket.yaml b/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/ticket.yaml
new file mode 100644
index 0000000..26b9107
--- /dev/null
+++ b/tickets/75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2/ticket.yaml
@@ -0,0 +1,4 @@
+ticket-id:
+- 75301806a39d4d0bb41300eaf3db7fe2
+title:
+- "Re: forget --ignore-missing-chunks [was\n\t--fsck-repair-missing-chunks]"