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authorDistix listener <distix@pieni.net>2016-02-20 21:46:30 +0100
committerDistix listener <distix@pieni.net>2016-02-20 21:46:30 +0100
commitd190ffef52edc6307eed4920a1ae1fc90aa27f8e (patch)
tree5c1f6f376717bb6205df787577bbf73b0a3cf106 /tickets/a5f48a2fdc2b4d8a81ecf85923430f48
parent8c087e41fdda5d9508b9c95ea57fbd079142633d (diff)
downloadobnam-dev-distix-d190ffef52edc6307eed4920a1ae1fc90aa27f8e.tar.gz
imported mails
Diffstat (limited to 'tickets/a5f48a2fdc2b4d8a81ecf85923430f48')
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diff --git a/tickets/a5f48a2fdc2b4d8a81ecf85923430f48/Maildir/new/1456001187.M782655P8737Q40.hrun b/tickets/a5f48a2fdc2b4d8a81ecf85923430f48/Maildir/new/1456001187.M782655P8737Q40.hrun
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+Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2015 22:33:41 +0100
+From: Lars Wirzenius <liw@liw.fi>
+To: Obnam development <obnam-dev@obnam.org>
+Message-ID: <20151213213341.GT2459@exolobe1.liw.fi>
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+Subject: Obnam development status update
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+--Nx8xdmI2KD3LNVVP
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
+Content-Disposition: inline
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Hello, people interested in Obnam development.
+
+A brief status update on Obnam development. There's a request for help
+at the end.
+
+For a long time now, I've mainly concentrated my Obnam development
+time on FORMAT GREEN ALBATROSS[0]. with some bug fixing for other
+parts of the code base. The green-albatross code is the new repository
+format, which is intended to make Obnam much faster than currently,
+using the "FORMAT 6" repositry format. For precise details, see the
+the NEWS file and the git commit log.
+
+[0] Yes, that's a Charles Stross Laundry Files reference.
+
+Format 6 is based on copy-on-write B-trees using the Larch library.
+Green-albatross is based on DIR objects that contain all the metadata
+of a directory and its contents, but not its sub-directories.
+
+Would it be useful and welcome, if I wrote about my Obnam development
+thoughts more often on obnam-dev, or would that be flooding the list
+with too much traffic? I guess I could think out loud in my blog
+instead.
+
+In September I got a grant from the FUUG Foundation, see [1], to buy a
+computer for Obnam development. I bought a pile of parts, and
+assembled it. It's the first computer I've assembled since 2009. I'll
+be writing about the details of this in my blog, later on. Until this
+computer, almost all Obnam development has been done on my personal
+laptop, which has been somewhat limiting. For example, running
+benchmarks meant that I couldn't usefully do much more at the same
+time, so I tended to run benchmarks overnight, and that limited the
+feedback, making progress slower. Also, I do not have terabytes of
+free disk space on laptop.
+
+[1] http://blog.liw.fi/posts/fuug-grant/
+
+Over northern hemisphere summer this year, I used some virtual
+machines in the Bytemark BigV cloud, sponsored by Bytemark, which also
+worked fine for bencharmking, but a dedicated machine works better.
+
+The new computer has sped up green albatross development quite nicely.
+Results can be viewed at [2]. I've been running two simple benchmarks:
+one with a million files, each 1 random byte, and one with a single
+file of 10 GiB. The numbers have gone from about 2200 and 1400
+seconds, respectively, to about 1500 and 400 seconds, respectively.
+The corresponding numbers for format 6 are about 9300 and 3600
+seconds.
+
+[2] http://benchmark.obnam.org/e2obbench-v2/html/
+
+I'd like green-albatross to get a lot faster still, but this is now
+fast enough that I've started running a secondary set of backups using
+the green albatross format.
+
+There's still a lot to do, before the new repository format is ready
+for production use. I know of the following:
+
+* The chunk index data structures, necessary for de-duplication and
+ for removing chunks that are no longer needed, are currently very
+ simplistic. They are one encoded as one big blob, and this needs to
+ be split up into smaller pieces of data that can be re-used across
+ updates, in a copy-on-write manner. Otherwise, each backup will
+ upload tens or hundreds of megabytes of mostly duplicate data.
+
+* Obnam currently doesn't do copy-on-write updates of the
+ green-albatross DIR objects. This means that a new DIR object is
+ created for each directory in live data, even if there's been no
+ changes from the previous backup. This causes further unnecessary
+ data to be uploaded for every backup.
+
+* The "obnam forget" operation for green-albatross doesn't actually
+ remove now-unnecessary chunks. Oops.
+
+* The FUSE filesystem doesn't do seeks very efficiently, as it needs
+ to read from the beginning of a file every time. This can be quite
+ slow. The fix is fairly easy: store the size of a chunk with the
+ reference to the chunk, and seeking can suddenly be done much
+ faster.
+
+* I'd like to add some more filesystem metadata about files that
+ format 6 doesn't support.
+
+* It would be nice for people be able to convert existing backups to a
+ new repository format. I'm sure green-albatross is not the last
+ repository format for Obnam, either. I'm thinking that something
+ conceptually similar to git's "fast-export" format would be good. In
+ other words, an interchange format to represent a backup repository
+ in a way that's independent of the repository format, and possibly
+ even independent of the backup program, in which case it could be
+ used to convert from, say, Obnam to Attic, Attic to bup, or
+ duplicity to rdiff-backup.
+
+* There is no "obnam fsck" for green-albatross yet. Someone should
+ write that.
+
+* A bunch more benchmarking is needed: different scenarios, and more
+ types of measurements. For example, I don't currently know how much
+ memory Obnam is using with green-albatross. Hopefully there's no
+ unpleasant surprises lurking there.
+
+So that's what's missing, as far as I currently know. There's a lot of
+details and I'm probably not aware of everything that's still needed.
+
+Which brings me to a request for help: If you have the spare capacity
+(CPU, memory, disk space, bandwidth, time), I'd really quite
+appreciate if you could try the green-albatross repository format.
+However, and I can't stress this enough, it is not stable, it is NOT
+READY for production use, and the on-disk repository format WILL
+CHANGE in ways that will force you to wipe a repository and back up
+everything all over again. Also, see the bulleted list above for
+things that aren't done yet. If you don't mind that, then create a new
+backup using "--repository-format=3Dgreen-albatross". Everything else
+should work as before, except the things that don't work at all yet.
+Or the things that are buggy.
+
+If you do try, please report to obnam-dev, especially if you see any
+problems, but also if you don't.
+
+If you want to do some Obnam hacking, the repository format conversion
+and the fsck are the areas where I'd most urgently appreciate help.
+
+If you are not a developer, or can't take on such large projects,
+another way to help is to be on the obnam-support mailing list and
+answer questions from people. There aren't that many, but even so the
+take time from me that I might otherwise use for writing code for
+Obnam.
+
+Thank you, and happy backups for everyone.
+
+--=20
+Schr=F6dinger's backup hypothesis: the condition of any backup is
+undefined until a restore is attempted. -- andrewsh
+
+--Nx8xdmI2KD3LNVVP
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+_______________________________________________
+obnam-dev mailing list
+obnam-dev@obnam.org
+http://listmaster.pepperfish.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/obnam-dev-obnam.org
+
+--===============7182395716470202758==--
+
diff --git a/tickets/a5f48a2fdc2b4d8a81ecf85923430f48/Maildir/new/1456001187.M838814P8737Q41.hrun b/tickets/a5f48a2fdc2b4d8a81ecf85923430f48/Maildir/new/1456001187.M838814P8737Q41.hrun
new file mode 100644
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@@ -0,0 +1,249 @@
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+ for <obnam-dev@obnam.org>; Sun, 13 Dec 2015 22:33:42 +0100 (CET)
+Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2015 22:33:41 +0100
+From: Lars Wirzenius <liw@liw.fi>
+To: Obnam development <obnam-dev@obnam.org>
+Message-ID: <20151213213341.GT2459@exolobe1.liw.fi>
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+
+
+--===============7182395716470202758==
+Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256;
+ protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Nx8xdmI2KD3LNVVP"
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+
+--Nx8xdmI2KD3LNVVP
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
+Content-Disposition: inline
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Hello, people interested in Obnam development.
+
+A brief status update on Obnam development. There's a request for help
+at the end.
+
+For a long time now, I've mainly concentrated my Obnam development
+time on FORMAT GREEN ALBATROSS[0]. with some bug fixing for other
+parts of the code base. The green-albatross code is the new repository
+format, which is intended to make Obnam much faster than currently,
+using the "FORMAT 6" repositry format. For precise details, see the
+the NEWS file and the git commit log.
+
+[0] Yes, that's a Charles Stross Laundry Files reference.
+
+Format 6 is based on copy-on-write B-trees using the Larch library.
+Green-albatross is based on DIR objects that contain all the metadata
+of a directory and its contents, but not its sub-directories.
+
+Would it be useful and welcome, if I wrote about my Obnam development
+thoughts more often on obnam-dev, or would that be flooding the list
+with too much traffic? I guess I could think out loud in my blog
+instead.
+
+In September I got a grant from the FUUG Foundation, see [1], to buy a
+computer for Obnam development. I bought a pile of parts, and
+assembled it. It's the first computer I've assembled since 2009. I'll
+be writing about the details of this in my blog, later on. Until this
+computer, almost all Obnam development has been done on my personal
+laptop, which has been somewhat limiting. For example, running
+benchmarks meant that I couldn't usefully do much more at the same
+time, so I tended to run benchmarks overnight, and that limited the
+feedback, making progress slower. Also, I do not have terabytes of
+free disk space on laptop.
+
+[1] http://blog.liw.fi/posts/fuug-grant/
+
+Over northern hemisphere summer this year, I used some virtual
+machines in the Bytemark BigV cloud, sponsored by Bytemark, which also
+worked fine for bencharmking, but a dedicated machine works better.
+
+The new computer has sped up green albatross development quite nicely.
+Results can be viewed at [2]. I've been running two simple benchmarks:
+one with a million files, each 1 random byte, and one with a single
+file of 10 GiB. The numbers have gone from about 2200 and 1400
+seconds, respectively, to about 1500 and 400 seconds, respectively.
+The corresponding numbers for format 6 are about 9300 and 3600
+seconds.
+
+[2] http://benchmark.obnam.org/e2obbench-v2/html/
+
+I'd like green-albatross to get a lot faster still, but this is now
+fast enough that I've started running a secondary set of backups using
+the green albatross format.
+
+There's still a lot to do, before the new repository format is ready
+for production use. I know of the following:
+
+* The chunk index data structures, necessary for de-duplication and
+ for removing chunks that are no longer needed, are currently very
+ simplistic. They are one encoded as one big blob, and this needs to
+ be split up into smaller pieces of data that can be re-used across
+ updates, in a copy-on-write manner. Otherwise, each backup will
+ upload tens or hundreds of megabytes of mostly duplicate data.
+
+* Obnam currently doesn't do copy-on-write updates of the
+ green-albatross DIR objects. This means that a new DIR object is
+ created for each directory in live data, even if there's been no
+ changes from the previous backup. This causes further unnecessary
+ data to be uploaded for every backup.
+
+* The "obnam forget" operation for green-albatross doesn't actually
+ remove now-unnecessary chunks. Oops.
+
+* The FUSE filesystem doesn't do seeks very efficiently, as it needs
+ to read from the beginning of a file every time. This can be quite
+ slow. The fix is fairly easy: store the size of a chunk with the
+ reference to the chunk, and seeking can suddenly be done much
+ faster.
+
+* I'd like to add some more filesystem metadata about files that
+ format 6 doesn't support.
+
+* It would be nice for people be able to convert existing backups to a
+ new repository format. I'm sure green-albatross is not the last
+ repository format for Obnam, either. I'm thinking that something
+ conceptually similar to git's "fast-export" format would be good. In
+ other words, an interchange format to represent a backup repository
+ in a way that's independent of the repository format, and possibly
+ even independent of the backup program, in which case it could be
+ used to convert from, say, Obnam to Attic, Attic to bup, or
+ duplicity to rdiff-backup.
+
+* There is no "obnam fsck" for green-albatross yet. Someone should
+ write that.
+
+* A bunch more benchmarking is needed: different scenarios, and more
+ types of measurements. For example, I don't currently know how much
+ memory Obnam is using with green-albatross. Hopefully there's no
+ unpleasant surprises lurking there.
+
+So that's what's missing, as far as I currently know. There's a lot of
+details and I'm probably not aware of everything that's still needed.
+
+Which brings me to a request for help: If you have the spare capacity
+(CPU, memory, disk space, bandwidth, time), I'd really quite
+appreciate if you could try the green-albatross repository format.
+However, and I can't stress this enough, it is not stable, it is NOT
+READY for production use, and the on-disk repository format WILL
+CHANGE in ways that will force you to wipe a repository and back up
+everything all over again. Also, see the bulleted list above for
+things that aren't done yet. If you don't mind that, then create a new
+backup using "--repository-format=3Dgreen-albatross". Everything else
+should work as before, except the things that don't work at all yet.
+Or the things that are buggy.
+
+If you do try, please report to obnam-dev, especially if you see any
+problems, but also if you don't.
+
+If you want to do some Obnam hacking, the repository format conversion
+and the fsck are the areas where I'd most urgently appreciate help.
+
+If you are not a developer, or can't take on such large projects,
+another way to help is to be on the obnam-support mailing list and
+answer questions from people. There aren't that many, but even so the
+take time from me that I might otherwise use for writing code for
+Obnam.
+
+Thank you, and happy backups for everyone.
+
+--=20
+Schr=F6dinger's backup hypothesis: the condition of any backup is
+undefined until a restore is attempted. -- andrewsh
+
+--Nx8xdmI2KD3LNVVP
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+Content-Disposition: inline
+
+_______________________________________________
+obnam-dev mailing list
+obnam-dev@obnam.org
+http://listmaster.pepperfish.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/obnam-dev-obnam.org
+
+--===============7182395716470202758==--
+
diff --git a/tickets/a5f48a2fdc2b4d8a81ecf85923430f48/Maildir/tmp/.this-dir-not-empty/.empty/empty-file b/tickets/a5f48a2fdc2b4d8a81ecf85923430f48/Maildir/tmp/.this-dir-not-empty/.empty/empty-file
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--- /dev/null
+++ b/tickets/a5f48a2fdc2b4d8a81ecf85923430f48/Maildir/tmp/.this-dir-not-empty/.empty/empty-file
diff --git a/tickets/a5f48a2fdc2b4d8a81ecf85923430f48/ticket.yaml b/tickets/a5f48a2fdc2b4d8a81ecf85923430f48/ticket.yaml
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+++ b/tickets/a5f48a2fdc2b4d8a81ecf85923430f48/ticket.yaml
@@ -0,0 +1,4 @@
+ticket-id:
+- a5f48a2fdc2b4d8a81ecf85923430f48
+title:
+- Obnam development status update